MWO...The New Consumer of My Entertainment Budget

[Tate]

well some of it anyway......

Just after I found you guys I realized I'm going to have to:

1) Build or buy a desktop gaming machine.
I don't want to go over $1000, is that possible? maybe $1500?
This machine would be for MWO only as
I don't play any other PC games so it won't have to be a monster.
I'm a little in the dark about this so any help would be great.
I only have a laptop now.
2) Need to buy a new wheel.
Don't know what happened to my wheel (moved a lot).
Might need a little help here too.
3) I will be donating every month regardless

I know this will all be well worth it.

[KEN]

You will be able to stay with in $750 pretty easily as long as you don't need a new monitor. You wont need any kind of a beast to run MWO at full settings. I'm running the following:

Motherboard = GIGABYTE GA-EP45C-UD3R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128364) $119.99
Processor = Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115055) $180 (Over clocked with no issues to 3.2ghz)
Memory = OCZ Platinum 6GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227381) $84.99

And the rest really doesn't matter, its all in what you want. I picked up 2 1TB drives for 160 bucks with a really nice case for $100, plus a power supply for $75 and I was done. This system will also run Mac OS X right out of the box. (Yes we use macs since it will be one of the platforms we will deploy too)

[Tate]

Cool, Thanks Ken and yeah LOL I would need to buy a monitor
but it's all good
Man I didn't know that stuff got so cheap....especially the memory, wow.
What a difference a couple years make eh?

[KEN]

You can cut some corners and go even cheaper on the processor. I say don't cheap out on the motherboard and don't cheap out on the video card and you will be ok! A Dual Core processor is more then enough. The quad core is nice for me because I'm running like 5 apps at once while working on the game. The biggest thing for me is cooling. Everyone in my family will tell you I'm crazy when it comes to cooling. My current PC has made me sick from all the fans and cold air pouring out of it and onto me. Literrally and I couldn't be happier knowing my over clocked CPU runs at 30C!

[gcountach]

Here's a good place to check out:
http://www.hardware-revolution.com/computer-systems/gaming-pc/500/

[Wraith]

Don't skimp on the PSU. It's the most commonly ignored elements of a PSU, and I cannot tell you how many times people have needed help from because either their POS PSU dies and fried their [insert other piece of hardware] on its way out.

[KEN]

Got to agree with Wraith on that. I never buy anything other then thermaltake when it comes to PSU's. If you are planning to run more then one video card you definitely don't want to skimp out or use the piece of crap that comes with those cheap towers.

[Tate]

Here's a good place to check out:
http://www.hardware-revolution.com/computer-systems/gaming-pc/500/

:top: Cool, thanks....that's just about what I'm thinking except maybe different MB, Case and Power supply


Don't skimp on the PSU. It's the most commonly ignored elements of a PSU, and I cannot tell you how many times people have needed help from because either their POS PSU dies and fried their [insert other piece of hardware] on its way out.

I'm thinking 700w

[J_Simmons]

heres a cool barebone one of my buddies just bought. just wish i could afford it now....if i sold some stuff i prolly could. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4601609&Sku=B69-1054 you need dvd drive (SATA) and graphics card, but i was amazed how much ram it has and the new i7 for the low price.

[KEN]

Hey that's just like my case! I ripped out all the fans and put in good high speed fans! That case is really great for air flow. That's just like the sucker that has me sick right now lol. That's not a bad deal on that barebones package. You could still save 4 to 5 bucks on some of those items buying it from newegg then even more by sending in rebates. But if you want a no B.S. all in one package that would be the way to go!

[DreadZer0]

so what's the minimum specs of MWO looking like? I'm having problems playing some of the Motoring games online with a few frames dropped...

[Tate]

Too bad we couldn't just download and play on PS3.
oh well.

[Wraith]

I'm thinking 700w

This is exactly what I hear a lot. I'm sorry, but you'll need to research this further before you buy your PSU. Watts don't mean much. As far as power is concerned, you need to be looking at amperage -- more specifically, amperage on the 12v rail(s). Second, you want to make sure you have a PSU with good "guts". CWT and seasonic are two off the top of my head. Most PSUs are simply branded PSUs which contain one of the major. For instance, ken's thermaltake psus I'm fairly sure use CWT as their OEM -- at least some of them do.

Quality over quantity. You can cheaply get a 600w psu that will fail at 400w load. Why is it called 600w? A lot of the times is more amperage on other rails or theoretical max of all rails, but the actual circuitry can't handle it all at once.

http://www.jonnyguru.com is probably the best place for PSU advice and learning. Visit their forums and read. Then make an informed decision when it comes time to buy a PSU. You don't need 700W. A good 700W psu is more than enough to run quad crossfire (maybe an over statement, but I know people have run SLI'd GX2's at 700w under load).

[kevmeister]

'Tom's Hardware' is another site my wife recommends (she used to service machines, and maintains our home LAN)...

[gcountach]

Here's something to give you an idea of how large a PSU you need.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

Put in what the computer you are wanting to build is, then what you dream to upgrade it to (SLi/Crossfire, more hard drives, etc.). Take THAT number and find the best PSU ABOVE that (While it may seem excessive to some, not having enough juice can really ruin your day). Like they said, get a good one and make sure there is proper amperage on each rail. It's been a while since I've built mine, but I think you want multiple 12V rails if you are going with multiple cards. Also keep in mind the amount of connectors you will need. My 8800GTX takes 2 PCIe power connectors, each hard drive and Optical Drive takes either a molex or a SATA power connector. Nothing sucks worse then not having enough of those plugs...

Oh, and I've built two computers using Antec's TruePower PSU's and haven't had a problem with them.

[Tate]

This is exactly what I hear a lot. I'm sorry, but you'll need to research this further before you buy your PSU. Watts don't mean much. As far as power is concerned, you need to be looking at amperage -- more specifically, amperage on the 12v rail(s). Second, you want to make sure you have a PSU with good "guts". CWT and seasonic are two off the top of my head. Most PSUs are simply branded PSUs which contain one of the major. For instance, ken's thermaltake psus I'm fairly sure use CWT as their OEM -- at least some of them do.

OK that makes sense, I'm still learning (baby steps) just spent a couple hours on jonnyguru reading and I understand a little more now, thank you.



Quality over quantity. You can cheaply get a 600w psu that will fail at 400w load. Why is it called 600w? A lot of the times is more amperage on other rails or theoretical max of all rails, but the actual circuitry can't handle it all at once.

I've always been a believer in the Philosophy of quality over quantity. This makes more sense now, again, thank you.



http://www.jonnyguru.com is probably the best place for PSU advice and learning. Visit their forums and read. Then make an informed decision when it comes time to buy a PSU. You don't need 700W. A good 700W psu is more than enough to run quad crossfire (maybe an over statement, but I know people have run SLI'd GX2's at 700w under load).

It's probably going to be a couple months (after I move to FL) before I start putting a machine together
but after the reviews, faq's, and other threads I've read at jonnyguru so far, I'm leaning towards the
Antec twelve hundred case with the
CP-850 PSU for starters (4 12V rails @ combined 64A {22A,22A,25A,25A})
and then building the rest around that.
Seems like something I can continually upgrade around too, I like that.

[Wraith]

Sigh, just lost everything I posted. I had a nice habit of copying everything to clipboard before I click "Post Quick Reply" and I forgot this time.

Anyway, quick recap of everything I typed. Multiple vs Single rails: mostly BS. These days, good multiple rails should be the same as single; they were at no point "better" than single rail PSUs. Early designs also encountered a lot of problems with system stability due to one of the rails being overloaded. It is still possible to do so with the current "true" multiple rail PSUs, but a lot harder and usually requiring 2-to-1 adapters. I say "true" because there are more than a few "multi" rail PSUs out there that are actually one massive single rail. For the most intensive systems with many things plugged in, you are better off with a single rail. For the average user, it shouldn't matter as long as you don't do anything weird with the multi rail one.

As for Tom's Hardware... long ago they were a good site, then they were "bought" by intel (Tom's started being plastered with intel advertisements). I believe it was after thunderbird/p3 era, which made it very obvious as thunderbird was clearly superior and tom's supported this with unbiased reviews. However, after intel's marketing on their website, the P4 was apparently the better choice regardless of benchmarks. Anyone who knows CPU history knows early P4's were garbage and northwood's clawed their way back into to competition with athlons, eventually taking the crown from AMD for a brief period. However, when athlon 64 came out and clearly trumped anything intel had, tom's talked about future intel processors (of the $1200 EE kind) most likely being better and it not being a good idea to buy amd.

These days, they are better I think, but you still see them occasionally hyping up anything intel feeds them and downplaying anything amd. Aside from that, they just aren't that good to be honest. They went way down hill in article quality years ago, and regardless of bias or not, they just have never gotten back into being a serious technical article site.

Anandtech and HardOCP are pretty good, and I've never seen something biased come from them. I like others, but if you aren't familiar in the tech world, you're pretty safe going to either of those.

Well it doesn't seem to want to let me post a quick reply, so I'll just do it this way. At least I remembered to copy it before clicking post this time

[Tate]

Well, I decided to go the laptop route
I was having serious issues with my HP (2yr old Pav9000)
That and I like the mobility of laptops.
I found one with pretty much everything I was looking for for a decent price
Toshiba Qosmio X305-Q715
17 in screen
2.5Ghz duo core
4 Gigs of DDR3
320GB Hard drive (7200RPM) and I can add another 320 GB HDD if I want to
GeForce 9800M GTS graphics card
Regza Link
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/pdet.to?poid=432324

I researched for a few days and everything with the same specs was at least $400 more than this one (Alienware and everyone else)
I thought about going one step up and getting dual video cards but it only has a 2 Ghz processor for $350 more and I don't need dual cards really.

There are a lot of people who complain about the case, but I like it...and the chicks dig it too!:p
It's not for everyone but it fits me.
I think it's gonna be able to handle MWO just fine
Thanks again, to everyone for your help and advice...much appreciated.

[1969amx]

*sighs* We've lost another one to the dark(laptop)side.

[gcountach]

Well, I decided to go the laptop route
I was having serious issues with my HP (2yr old Pav9000)
That and I like the mobility of laptops.

Everyone loves the mobility of a laptop, but no one ever takes them anywhere. Ask yourself "Am I really going to move this around enough to justify the extra cost over a desktop?" before you make that leap. Also keep in mind that bigger screens = bigger laptops which are harder to move around (and will end up never being moved). Also, you should take into consideration weight. 10-15 lbs may not seem like much, but as you grow tired of packing a laptop around you may change your mind.

[Tate]

Everyone loves the mobility of a laptop, but no one ever takes them anywhere. Ask yourself "Am I really going to move this around enough to justify the extra cost over a desktop?" before you make that leap. Also keep in mind that bigger screens = bigger laptops which are harder to move around (and will end up never being moved). Also, you should take into consideration weight. 10-15 lbs may not seem like much, but as you grow tired of packing a laptop around you may change your mind.

Actually I do take mine everywhere and I took my 17" pavilion everywhere for 2 years also.
Before that I had a desktop and never liked the fact that it was stationary. I gave it away and got a laptop.

Lol. Bigger laptops are harder to move around and won't be?
What kind of nonsense is that? I'm 6'4 200lbs not a 100 lb stick figure.

And NO 10-15 lbs is NOT a lot of weight unless your muscles are atrophied from sitting in a computer chair your whole life.

And besides, when I was thinking about building a desktop, I had to ask my self why go back to that when I don't need to.
Storage? This laptop has 640gigs now.
Speed? This 2.5gig processor screams
Memory? It has 4gigs (some people don't even have half that in their desktops)
Graphics? 9800 GTS screams (1gig discrete memory)
Audio? 4.1 surround sound (4 speakers and a sub)
I can keep going but I won't

You can Nay say all ya want but this laptop kicks AZZ

[gcountach]

Actually I do take mine everywhere and I took my 17' pavilion everywhere for 2 years also.
Before that I had a desktop and never liked the fact that it was stationary. I gave it away and got a laptop.

Lol. Bigger laptops are harder to move around and won't be?
What kind of nonsense is that? I'm 6'4 200lbs not a 100 lb stick figure.

And NO 10-15 lbs is NOT a lot of weight unless your muscles are atrophied from sitting in a computer chair your whole life.

And besides, when I was thinking about building a desktop, I had to ask my self why go back to that when I don't need to.
Storage? This laptop has 640gigs now.
Speed? This 2.5gig processor screams
Memory? It has 4gigs (some people don't even have half that in their desktops)
Graphics? 9800 GTS screams (1gig discrete memory)
Audio? 4.1 surround sound (4 speakers and a sub)
I can keep going but I won't

You can Nay say all ya want but this laptop kicks AZZ

I'm not basing this off me. I don't like spending the same amount of money on a laptop that I could for a more powerful desktop, and with no intentions of moving it anywhere, it makes sense for me to just stick with the desktop. I was basing that off my roommate in college. He had a dell laptop, could not have weighed more than 15lbs with the bag, but he didn't like taking it from the room. Guy was athletic, so it wasn't like he was too weak to carry around. I guess he just found it to be a hassle. Like carrying a backpack with a couple of books. It just gets old. Before we were roommates, we were physics lab partners and I had to convince him often times to take it to our group meetings so we could do some of the report at the same time. I've also read a while ago reviews of gaming laptops and them being so heavy or their battery life being so short that they never left their desk. Only based on those experience that I recommended you think about those things. If you don't see any of those things being a problem, and enjoy mobility, get a laptop. Simple as that.

[Tate]

Actually I did buy it back in May and typing on it now.
I appreciate where you're coming from gcountach but desktops just aren't for me anymore

[Wraith]

Actually I do take mine everywhere and I took my 17' pavilion everywhere for 2 years also.


That's impressive. I'm 6'2, 205lbs and I don't think I could take a 17' pavilion everywhere I go. Unless it's in the back of a truck.

[cobra96]

the only thing i hate about laptops is the cooling...i had a badass laptop that would play Crysis on high settings with no lag but with a somewhat slim design it would get really hot...and i mean around 90C for the video card and 70-80C for the CPU...if i get a laptop again it will be from alienware simply because they have some thick laptops that get the heat out...but being that a desktop is easier to upgrade, easier to cool, and cheaper i will probably stick with building a desktop.

[roadweasel]

lol @ wraith..... yes, sounds like something you might put up at the beach to keep the sun off.

[Mad Mike]

You can Nay say all ya want but this laptop kicks AZZ

No doubt that it does now, but one thing: Laptops age like milk. My Desktop is 6 (going on 7) years old and yet it can run rings around my brothers 3 yr old HP Laptop despite his being better on paper. Laptops as a whole just do not age well and get "Sour" Very quickly, whereas Desktops generally are nowhere near as bad.

Also the battery life: That laptop's battery would last no more than an hour when new (not when playing games), and now it doesn't even hold 1 second of charge.

My biggest beef with laptops though is how they cost twice as much as the equivelant desktop, are generally less reliable and overheat far easier, but then those are my experiences with them

[ROKKET]

i have to agree with mad mike i have a azzkicking laptop but battery only lasts like 2 minutes ( its 2 years old) and my old p4 desktop still runs like a beast
yes i have replaced the old p4 its sitting on a sideboard next to my desk just incase VISTA PPPP's me off AGAIN

[gcountach]

It should be noted that batteries will not last as long if you leave them plugged in 24/7. Every so often (at least once a month) you should drain the battery completely. Unplug it, go into the power management settings and set everything to "Always On" and wait for the battery to go dead. When it does, plug the charger back in and don't turn the computer back on til it's at 100%. Don't forget to change the "On Battery" settings back to what they were after the battery fully charges. Lithium-Ion's are better at keeping their memory, but if you have anything else you should be doing this or the battery will forget how much charge it can hold! Even if you have Lithium-Ion's, you should consider doing it as it can increase the battery's lifespan.

Of course, batteries, even those on laptops, are a consumable item. After a while, they will just need replacing.

EDIT: It should be noted that, if you've never done this to your battery before, you may need to do it a couple of times to get the best results. If you don't notice much change, it wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and try 3-5 times more, depending on how bad the memory loss is.

WARNING: NEVER LET A BATTERY GO FULLY DEAD. If you do, it will never take a charge again. Doing this method will still have power left in the battery, just not enough to keep the computer going. If you do this method then wait say a few days before plugging it back in, you could allow it go do fully dead. When this happens, the polarity of the battery can change and that will cause it to be unable to be charged with the charger it was designed for.