Any Xbox 360 experts here?

[Frank]

I was wondering, I got a Xbox 360, actually this is the second one, and to avoid it overheating on the underside (when horizontal) I have this one set vertically even though I'm really un-fond of loading discs in the drive with it like that. The thing is that Forza Motorsport 2 and other games still freezes with it like this, first time was just 3 days after I got the new console. In FM2 it has mainly done it when selecting cars or saving after a race though so I'm not sure if it's software or hardware related
.
I am sure something's going on since two of the green lights in the ring started blinking alternately. Is this a warning signal or does that mean the orientation sensor is damaged since it's the two lights that are on depening on if the console is horizontal or vertical and you just got one controller connected.

Another matter. Besides the underside of the console heating up, then the back grill vents very hot air, is there something I can do to help it exhuast that air and thus hopefully keep it from overheating? Maybe some pc casefans mounted right behind the exhuast helping draw out more air?
Another idea I had was to build a support so I could have the console horizontal again but lifted some inches off the table and making sure it stood on the marked supports and didn't block the cooling holes underneath. Besides this would it then be an idea to have a fan blowing air on the underside since that gets very warm to the touch?
Note: I actually had a small tablefan blowing air at full speed on the underside as it was technically the left side of the console when it was set vertically but the console still froze.

Frank

[Bill_Wood]

Hi Frank. #1 your hardware has a problem insde. You should trade it in at a Gamestop store for another one. you may wind up with a real bad problem later on with it. For the over heating problem Microsoft has fans for them. You might want to check stores to see who has them.

[KEN]

Frank,

Your Xbox is about to become victim of the 3 red rings of death. The company I work for fixes about 20-30 of them every few months. I've fixed about 9 of them in my spare time. There are a few things you can do to fix the problem, all of them involve opening the xbox and voiding your warrenty. If you still have a reciept, and your box is still under warrenty keep playing it until it goes bad and then call 1-800-448-1330 and get yours replaced.

If your warrnety is no longer any good (past the 3 year extended warrenty) you might want to consider having it repaired by a pro. If you want to do it yourself, you want to look into three things.

1. BGA Reflow. The reason X-boxes go bad is because of the cheap nasty lead free solder that Microsoft uses. It gets too hot, fractures, and then causes a faulty connection, hence forth the 3 red rings of death. A BGA Reflow which many PC repair shops can do for you is rather quick, most times your xbox can be fixed in 1-2 hours and you shouldn't pay anymore then $60 bucks. My shop does it for $39.99. It fixes 93% of all xbox failures.

2. The X Clamp fix. Its cheap, and takes 20 mins to do, and it works for 3-6 months if done right. Look for video tutorials on youtube. This is not a good fix as its only temporary. You remove the x-clamps holding the heat sinks onto your GPU/CPU and replace them with machine screws, nylon washers, and stainless steel washers. This tightens the fractures in the bad BGA solder joints, pulling them together allowing a connection again.

3. If you do either one of these fixes above then you must consider this option. Your main issue causing problems is air flow. Upgrade the crappy microsoft fan to a whispermax fan. http://cgi.ebay.com/XBOX-360-Talismoon-Whisper-MAX-Cooling-Fan-NEW_W0QQitemZ290276321883QQcmdZViewItem They run 40% cooler and your GPU will have less of a chance of overheating and causing the fratures. I put this in every customers xbox I repair. Avoid those cheap ass fans they sell at gamestop at all cost, all they do is cool your case. What good is that? You need the internal componets to cool, not the dang case. Not to mention they do more damage then good.

If you have any more questions feel free to PM me.

[Frank]

Thanks for the replies (I've had problems replying, the forum asked me to enter my birthday etc. like I had to re-register while I was already logged in but now it finally worked).

I actually got two Xbox 360. One is 1 year old with a 20gb hdd and another has a 60gb hdd and is just maybe two weeks old and is the one I'm using now. I registered the old one at MS' site and requested repair but then they emailed me a link for a picture label I had to print out and put on a box and the email said I had to deliver that box with the Xbox and the label to the nearest UPS center and that's over 1 hour's drive from here. Then I heard when I bought the second one that MS will pick it up and return it to the door, he other seemed to indicate that reliability problems weren't really an issue, and that's the machine that has now frozen in-game several times with several different games and it has twice suddently had a visible drop in framerate during gameplay in games I've played for months without ever experiencing framerate problems.

The old Xbox started to freeze during start-up and completely unplugging everything for several days to give it a pause didn't help. Last I used it, it not just froze during start-up, the screen switched to flickering grey stripes and having used machines as classic as a Commodore 64 and Amiga 500 then even I know that such a reaction is a bad thing!

The new one seems to have a lighter power supply and the plug into the Xbox now has small hooks on it so it clicks into place. I also read that MS has updated the cooling by placing a duct but I'm not sure if mine has this. I also tried searching for coolers but found no cooler made by MS, but I did find claims that a specific make/model aftermarket cooler has actually fried several Xboxes, which might be why I also read that MS voids warranty if an intercooler has been used (as far as I understand it then they refer to one placed behind but outside the Xbox, not actually opening the Xbox up).

Btw, that problem with the switching between the two rings doesn't appear to happend now that I got the new Xbox set horizontally again and since the frequency between the shifting was anything but regular then it does seem to me that it was the orientation sensor that's malfunctioning, but I don't know if that changes other things besides the light ring used to indicate controllers plugged in.

Frank

[Havoxx]

Thanks for the replies (I've had problems replying, the forum asked me to enter my birthday etc. like I had to re-register while I was already logged in but now it finally worked).

I actually got two Xbox 360. One is 1 year old with a 20gb hdd and another has a 60gb hdd and is just maybe two weeks old and is the one I'm using now. I registered the old one at MS' site and requested repair but then they emailed me a link for a picture label I had to print out and put on a box and the email said I had to deliver that box with the Xbox and the label to the nearest UPS center and that's over 1 hour's drive from here. Then I heard when I bought the second one that MS will pick it up and return it to the door, he other seemed to indicate that reliability problems weren't really an issue, and that's the machine that has now frozen in-game several times with several different games and it has twice suddently had a visible drop in framerate during gameplay in games I've played for months without ever experiencing framerate problems.

The old Xbox started to freeze during start-up and completely unplugging everything for several days to give it a pause didn't help. Last I used it, it not just froze during start-up, the screen switched to flickering grey stripes and having used machines as classic as a Commodore 64 and Amiga 500 then even I know that such a reaction is a bad thing!

The new one seems to have a lighter power supply and the plug into the Xbox now has small hooks on it so it clicks into place. I also read that MS has updated the cooling by placing a duct but I'm not sure if mine has this. I also tried searching for coolers but found no cooler made by MS, but I did find claims that a specific make/model aftermarket cooler has actually fried several Xboxes, which might be why I also read that MS voids warranty if an intercooler has been used (as far as I understand it then they refer to one placed behind but outside the Xbox, not actually opening the Xbox up).

Btw, that problem with the switching between the two rings doesn't appear to happend now that I got the new Xbox set horizontally again and since the frequency between the shifting was anything but regular then it does seem to me that it was the orientation sensor that's malfunctioning, but I don't know if that changes other things besides the light ring used to indicate controllers plugged in.

Frank


Well, you are right in the duct deal, I have opened mine.... for certain reasons I shant name, and it does in fact have a duct..

As for the putting it vertical, I wouldn't really recommend this, I lost a disc because of it, any vibration or shaking causes the disc to move around wildly, at least on mine.

And yes, HEAT HEAT HEAT, that's the main issue with these things, my room is really cold due to my PC, so my Xbox rarely gets hot to the touch.

As for that cooler, thanks for the link, it looks good.

[Dajmin]

My first 360 died after about a month, but I sent it off and got i repaired. It then lasted about a year before kicking the bucket again. When I sent it back the second time I specifically asked for a new one to avoid the same thing happening again - and they did send me a new console.

Basically if yours is still under warranty I wouldn't bother opening it up yourself. Now Microsoft have a 3-year warranty on RRoD issues, but not any others so if it's only doing the 2 quadrant (which is overheating) it's only a matter of time before it goes the rest of the way so I'd hold onto it until you can send i back for free.

Here in the UK (I'm not sure if all of Europe uses the same repair place) the boxes go to Germany for repairs. The turnaround is really fast - first time was about 10 days, second time about a week.
Bottom line is I wouldn't be risking voiding my warranty to try the DIY repairs. On the other hand, if you've had you 360 since launch then the warranty will have run out and you might as well giev it a shot.

[Frank]

After a lot of guessing on what UPS wanted to recieve it for shipping for MS then I got Blockbuster, where I got it, to send it. After a small month it came back (the manager had several waiting since they only picked up one, at a time, and the person on the phone didn't even speak danish, it was an office in Norway or such and yes it's sent to Germany). The drive and motherboard was replaced and now it works.

I've sat it horizontally on some glasses that lift it 2-3 inches over the table so the heat from the disc-drive won't get reflected back into the case (not sure if it'll do anything but at least it shouldn't be able to hurt).

Frank

[mike71]

I would really get some kind of fan/cooler for it. They do not cost that much and will stop it from ever being able to over heart and melt their crappy soldier again.

[DevilMan]

I would really get some kind of fan/cooler for it. They do not cost that much and will stop it from ever being able to over heart and melt their crappy soldier again.

I've done a lot of research on coolers, and read a lot of pros and cons. As you know, the first gen coolers are a big no-no, because they use the 360's power,.. which hurts you more then helps. The newer gen have a seperate power source, but I have read people still having problems.
I've come to the conclusion.. just leave it as is. I don't want to prolong the inevidable RRoD, and risk it happening after my 3 years of warrenty is up. So I'm running my October 2008 Falcon in vertical, with no extra stuff or mods. When it RRod, I'll just be happy I invested in the extended warrenty, and go exchange it at Wal-Mart for a new one.

[BSG916]

Just out of curiosity, does the extended warranty include the replacement unit. I have already sent the original back about a year or so ago for the rrod and now my replacement has done the same thing. Just wondering if i should call to send back or have it fixed locally.

Thanks
Brian

[gcountach]

BSG, I'm pretty sure you can still send your replacement back. I'm not sure if they reset the 3 year warranty on replacements, but I would definitely try.

[Dajmin]

You sure do. You can check the warranty status online if you've registered the box (which I think you need to do to return it anyway) and the expiry date will change when you get the replacement. Mine went up to 2011 when I got my new one.

This link (https://service.xbox.com/warrantystatus.aspx?dvc=0&srid=-1) might work for you if you're logged in.

[Frank]

I've heard that here it has 3 years warranty however I'm also doubting that the stock setup is good enough, even after a repair, although some have said that MS has made a cooling-duct that is already fitted to repaired and new Xbox 360's on the market now, but I think it'll be hard to find out which one has it without opening it.

I wish I could just get it moved over into a mini pc-tower instead. I know it can and has been done, but I don't have many chances of it.

Frank

[DevilMan]

When I bought mine, Microsoft was going a 1 year warrenty. Walmarts warrenty gave me an additional 2 years. I don't have to send mine in with Walmart either.. I go back to the store with the broke one,.. walk out 5 minutes later with a new 360. I did a lot of research when buying a 360, because I didn't want to have to send one in, have it fixed, then wait for it to come back.

[Frank]

Well, I took a chance I guess since there was a serious saving when buying it at Blockbuster, and that was before adding the free Forza Motorsport 2 that was included. The local EB Games/Gamestop also said that if there was a problem with an Xbox 360 then it would be a waste of time to come to them for service since they wouldn't take it since you had to send it in yourself. On anoter note then my 20gb hdd is full now and the 120gb add-on drive costs a lot of money compared to a PC hdd.

On the good side then I really like the Xbox 360 controller and it's great it'll plug right into the PC, just a shame the trigger-axis is combined on the PC although it's seperate on the Xbox 360.

Frank

[elitebyford]

Frank, not sure on the xbox 360 controllers, or wether they are compatible, but i modded an orignal xbox controller with a USB 2.0 cable, and i use it in conjunction with 2 programs, one called ControlMK, witch uses the xbox controller to Emulate the mouse and keyboard, virtually allowing to to program any button/axis although some games might recognize it as a gamepad/joystick even whild running ControlMK, which leads to some wierd happenings with button-setup, but can be overcome by selecting different functions/keys both in controlmk and in-game. i also use XBCD, witch is the drivers for the controller and a nifty program witch allows the pressure sensitive ablity of the trigger buttons to be used on the pc. i however did not use the drivers, as my computer found the controller asap when i plugged it in. funny how that works to, cuz under manage devices, it stores the controller under storage drives instead of game controllers, im assuming it looks at it as a flash stick or something, with the memory card slots on the controller rather then console. as for the RROD, have fun with that, i still have not purchased a next gen. console due to, (personal opinion) overpriced, not much point since 90% of the games new are still available on the ps2. would never by a 360, as i had 2 xbox's that i was unhappy with both of them. (one modded, one not, both with poopie dvd drives) and piss poor consumer service by microsoft. i dont see the need to buy a next generation console until i have a nice big-screen tv with HDMI availibility, to further the use of a PS3. until then, its just another ps2 on steroids with fancy wireless controllers. good luck with your issues, i hope it works out for you.

[Matty]

Frank,

Your Xbox is about to become victim of the 3 red rings of death. The company I work for fixes about 20-30 of them every few months. I've fixed about 9 of them in my spare time. There are a few things you can do to fix the problem, all of them involve opening the xbox and voiding your warrenty. If you still have a reciept, and your box is still under warrenty keep playing it until it goes bad and then call 1-800-448-1330 and get yours replaced.

If your warrnety is no longer any good (past the 3 year extended warrenty) you might want to consider having it repaired by a pro. If you want to do it yourself, you want to look into three things.

1. BGA Reflow. The reason X-boxes go bad is because of the cheap nasty lead free solder that Microsoft uses. It gets too hot, fractures, and then causes a faulty connection, hence forth the 3 red rings of death. A BGA Reflow which many PC repair shops can do for you is rather quick, most times your xbox can be fixed in 1-2 hours and you shouldn't pay anymore then $60 bucks. My shop does it for $39.99. It fixes 93% of all xbox failures.

2. The X Clamp fix. Its cheap, and takes 20 mins to do, and it works for 3-6 months if done right. Look for video tutorials on youtube. This is not a good fix as its only temporary. You remove the x-clamps holding the heat sinks onto your GPU/CPU and replace them with machine screws, nylon washers, and stainless steel washers. This tightens the fractures in the bad BGA solder joints, pulling them together allowing a connection again.

3. If you do either one of these fixes above then you must consider this option. Your main issue causing problems is air flow. Upgrade the crappy microsoft fan to a whispermax fan. http://cgi.ebay.com/XBOX-360-Talismoon-Whisper-MAX-Cooling-Fan-NEW_W0QQitemZ290276321883QQcmdZViewItem They run 40% cooler and your GPU will have less of a chance of overheating and causing the fratures. I put this in every customers xbox I repair. Avoid those cheap ass fans they sell at gamestop at all cost, all they do is cool your case. What good is that? You need the internal componets to cool, not the dang case. Not to mention they do more damage then good.

If you have any more questions feel free to PM me.

Hey , ive heard of a method found on YouTube.com reguarding mass amounts of overheating. Rumor has it, that if u remove your harddrive and wrap the console within 3 towels and bake it in the oven for a period of time, taking it out, then plug it in, it should then turn on ande over heat, three times consecutively and then your problems are gone, for the most part, and not voiding a warranty. Ive been told of heatsink issues and the gel/lube that helps move heat. The baking process burns away the dust i guess.. Check it out, youtube!

[Matty]

Frank,

Your Xbox is about to become victim of the 3 red rings of death. The company I work for fixes about 20-30 of them every few months. I've fixed about 9 of them in my spare time. There are a few things you can do to fix the problem, all of them involve opening the xbox and voiding your warrenty. If you still have a reciept, and your box is still under warrenty keep playing it until it goes bad and then call 1-800-448-1330 and get yours replaced.

If your warrnety is no longer any good (past the 3 year extended warrenty) you might want to consider having it repaired by a pro. If you want to do it yourself, you want to look into three things.

1. BGA Reflow. The reason X-boxes go bad is because of the cheap nasty lead free solder that Microsoft uses. It gets too hot, fractures, and then causes a faulty connection, hence forth the 3 red rings of death. A BGA Reflow which many PC repair shops can do for you is rather quick, most times your xbox can be fixed in 1-2 hours and you shouldn't pay anymore then $60 bucks. My shop does it for $39.99. It fixes 93% of all xbox failures.

2. The X Clamp fix. Its cheap, and takes 20 mins to do, and it works for 3-6 months if done right. Look for video tutorials on youtube. This is not a good fix as its only temporary. You remove the x-clamps holding the heat sinks onto your GPU/CPU and replace them with machine screws, nylon washers, and stainless steel washers. This tightens the fractures in the bad BGA solder joints, pulling them together allowing a connection again.

3. If you do either one of these fixes above then you must consider this option. Your main issue causing problems is air flow. Upgrade the crappy microsoft fan to a whispermax fan. http://cgi.ebay.com/XBOX-360-Talismoon-Whisper-MAX-Cooling-Fan-NEW_W0QQitemZ290276321883QQcmdZViewItem They run 40% cooler and your GPU will have less of a chance of overheating and causing the fratures. I put this in every customers xbox I repair. Avoid those cheap ass fans they sell at gamestop at all cost, all they do is cool your case. What good is that? You need the internal componets to cool, not the dang case. Not to mention they do more damage then good.

If you have any more questions feel free to PM me.

Hey , ive heard of a method found on YouTube.com reguarding mass amounts of overheating. Rumor has it, that if u remove your harddrive and wrap the console within 3 towels and bake it in the oven for a period of time, taking it out, then plug it in, it should then turn on ande over heat, three times consecutively and then your problems are gone, for the most part, and not voiding a warranty. Ive been told of heatsink issues and the gel/lube that helps move heat. The baking process burns away the dust i guess.. Check it out, youtube!

[gcountach]

The towel trick is just a stop-gap. It doesn't address the real issue of the GPU getting so hot the solder joints go bad. Sending it to Microsoft or doing a proper repair by you or a professional is the only way stop it from getting the RROD again.

[Nismo240]

I choose the free and slightly less friendly way.
Went to Wally world and bought an arcade and swapped out the insides and took back the new unit with the old guts.

Honestly if you think about it MS screwed over everyone by releasing a product with over a 70% failure rate and last time I checked most of the companies that do that end up in some serious trouble. BTW my Xbox was one of those that came out in the first 2 years and if you look at the insides you can see MASSIVE differences in the heatsink and almost every other part in there. If you ask me it's b/s what MS did and I will not be buying the next gen xbox.

[gcountach]

I choose the free and slightly less friendly way.
Went to Wally world and bought an arcade and swapped out the insides and took back the new unit with the old guts.

Honestly if you think about it MS screwed over everyone by releasing a product with over a 70% failure rate and last time I checked most of the companies that do that end up in some serious trouble. BTW my Xbox was one of those that came out in the first 2 years and if you look at the insides you can see MASSIVE differences in the heatsink and almost every other part in there. If you ask me it's b/s what MS did and I will not be buying the next gen xbox.

... what kind of trouble? Original design had a design flaw that was fixed under warranty and already costed Microsoft billions in repair costs. Of course the newer xbox has different internal components. Namely, they don't particularly enjoy bleeding money in repairs any more than you enjoy having one red ring. If you don't feel like buying another xbox, that's not unreasonable. They've given plenty of people reasons not to and I'm not referring to just the failure rates. Anyone bought a 120gig for it lately?

That said... PS3 isn't perfect either: http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/01/ps3-clock-bug-apparently-squashed-games-are-playable/ . I've never heard of a console having heat issues causing bad solder joints before. No way for 360 engineers to expect that. A clock bug though? AFTER Y2K? That's just inexcusable.

[kintek]

That clock bug was a coding error, some how the program over wrote itself in thinking this year was a leap year.

It was a simple fix once they found the corrupt code.

The psp's were doing this too, but they actually went back a year. It did not effect them the way it did with the PS3's.

The only 360's that have actually been sent out properly were the Elites. They are putting the boards and heatsinks from the elites into the base, and pro systems now. They are still not out of the woods yet on the Red ring issues, even with that.

I have both a pro and a elite. The pro was handed to me because of the red ring problem. I'll have it fixed soon. The elite I bought and havent not found an issue yet, besides the heat it produces. I fixed that with the intercooler though.

That was probably already typed on here, but I didnt read every line, I just scanned it sorry. Still in the school mode when reading things tonight/morning.

[Nismo240]

Unfortunately for me my 360 was about 3 months past the warranty expiration so I was SOL. I can honestly say I don't know a single person that has had a 360 for more than a year and not had the RROD problem. One of my friends has had it happen to him 3 times and he just keeps having to send it back and then it happens again!
The only reason mine even lasted so long is because I keep it elevated to let it radiate heat in all directions. All you have to do is put 3 game cases under the left and right sides. This makes it so most of your 360's surface area is not touching anything. This was it can let heat out in all directions instead of heating up whatever it is sitting on. You could also put a fan next to it I know that really helped keep the temperatures down on my 1st and 2nd 360's.

[gcountach]

If you're going to have to buy a new one....

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/14/new-xbox-360-hardware-details/

[Nismo240]

I wonder if the new 360's will have similar problems since they added all kinds of new stuff to them.

[Pie]

They need to put a cookie maker in the 360. Then it would be complete. Then maybe I would buy one. :)

[badcompany187]

i had my 360 shut down after a year....i bought my original one a year after they came out...luckily i bought the extended warranty and gave a replacement on the spot. The cool thing is that it was around the time halo 3 came out, so they gave a halo 3 addition 360 because they didnt have anything else. I was pretty stoked about that, as it looks much better than the white original one. I have had this one for almost 3 years and still going strong with no hickups (knock wood)